Friday, 25 March 2022
  24 Replies
  1.2K Visits
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I'm opening this thread to start the debate, with concrete solutions on how to solve the problem with the lapped cars.

Let's start with:

1. Use of the CrewChief plug-in as an aid to know when a faster car is behind you.
2. Establishing norms on how to let a car by
3. What not to do

To get the ball rolling, can someone, perhaps Otto Acosta who's quite experienced with this, give us a tutorial on how to properly install CrewChief and have it only inform drivers of flags and cars around?

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

Janos Magasrevy featured this post — 2 months ago
Janos Magasrevy featured this post — 2 months ago
2 months ago
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#6484
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Allow me to help...
Go to the website and the first tab says "Download CrewChief for PC"

Link:
https://thecrewchief.org/

Once installed, you can customize as much or as little as you want. The basic version talks to you.
If you want to talk to him, you'll need to install Voice Recognition software that's spelled out quite clearly.
Point the software at your rFactor2 install...

Links to setup pages:

Basic Settings

Properties

Bottom left, in Properties, you can see "Blue Flags" Also notice the boxes aimed at rFactor2.
While you're there, look at all the properties, there's a lot of information the Crew Chief can give you. I always allow mine to use foul language, for instance.
Have fun with it.
I've installed the language packs so I can actually talk to him and ask for useful information.
2 months ago
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#6490
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In MHO the blue flag notice comes on much too soon. I do not know the time limit on being DQ'd once received but I am losing up to 10 seconds a lap waiting on faster cars to catch up and pass after I receive the blue flag. I am afraid that if I keep driving at speed after receiving the blue flag until the car actually gets close I will be DQ'd. I would like to see the blue flag signal when approaching car is within 2 seconds. I always use crew chief so am always aware when cars are approaching. Would very much like to know how long after receiving blue flag do you have to let approaching car pass before you are DQ,d.
Thomas
2 months ago
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#6492
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1) Crew Chief is useful for a number of things besides being told about upcoming cars and cars catching you. Depending on how well or poor you are doing in the race, you just may want to turn off some comments. No one needs to be told over and over that " We didn't come here for this. "

2)Norms.
This is going to be the hardest thing to nail down. I've had these conversations and had a number of threads on the subject. It seems that even sim drivers who have really raced on some level have different views on how a pass should go. I suspect this comes from the different cars and their handling characteristics. Some will say that the best method is to hold your line and let the passing car pick their own way around you. Some will want any car they can see to pull over as soon as possible as to not make them lose even a 10th of a second. In my view, the most workable method changes with the track style. Tracks with poor lines of sight need a different tactic than ones where the slow and fast cars can see the other for quite some time. Tracks with twisty sections and straight sections are a mix of them. I'll wait to hear other ideas before I make a wall of text on my views.

3) What not to do.
Janos for this one, I think we need to nail down the leagues expectations first. In very broad terms, a pass should happen in a way that impacts both drivers in the least amount. In a more narrowed scope, the pass would impact the passing car in the least and the slower car may have to lose time. Where this all falls apart is when there is contact. That affects both drivers in the worst way. In my view both drivers have a responsibility for this to all work well . Once we get a clear idea what the league expects, I will get into details of my own on the dos and don'ts of passing.
2 months ago
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#6495
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Replying to Thomas Shepherd:

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to configure when the blue flag is shown. The only parameter I've seen that can be configured is how close behind does a driver need to be before the lapped car gets penalized. This value is currently set to 0.5s.

Now that this information is known, simply being shown the blue flag doesn't mean you will be penalized immediately, what it means is that you should prepare to let the driver by soon. To be honest, 0.5s is quite lenient as that's almost being stuck behind the gearbox of the car ahead.

Also, I think the penalty is not a DQ, you'll get drive-thru pits first, but maybe the game itself will impose harsher ones if you keep doing it.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

2 months ago
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#6496
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Replying to John Williamson and everyone else:

1. CrewChief
Should be a must, I will check with all drivers to make sure it gets installed and configured properly before we have our next race. Richard Haynie already got the ball rolling on this.

2. Norms
This should be more common sense driving than anything else. Regardless of the venue, every track has turns with braking zone, apex, and exit phases. Usually, turns follow one racing line, with very few exceptions where different lines can be driven. To me, asking the lapped cars to move away from the racing line during the braking or exit phase is not too much to ask. Not to mention, moving away from the line on a straight is even more desirable. I've watched F1 for many years and I don't recall the last time a lead driver had to lap a car by performing an overtaking maneuver. Anyways, I don't want to make this post too long so I'll start putting bullet points here:

A. As a general rule, the slower car must always move away from the racing line when there's a faster car about to lap him.
B. Moving away from the line should be performed either on a straight, the braking zone, or corner exit, never during the apex phase.
C. When moving away from the line, make sure to slow down slightly as to allow the faster car to go by as soon as possible.

I understand that there might be situations when lapped cars are fighting with others for position and moving away could affect the outcome of such fight. However, at the front, it's quite difficult to recover from a 1-second slowdown, especially when you go outside the DRS sweet spot. So the last thing we want to see is a race or even a championship be decided by a backmaker that made it too difficult or that caused an accident.

3. What not to do
A. Never brake on the racing line while going on a straight or exiting a corner, the faster driver never expects this.
B. Do not engage in a mini-race with the faster driver. I've seen on many occasions drivers that pull away from the line yet they race you to the apex of the turn forcing a dangerous maneuver.
C. Faster drivers shouldn't continue accelerating through the slower drivers and cause accidents. Caution must always be exercised regardless of the position of the driver.


All in all, these are just ideas. The root cause of this issue is the current performance gap there is on raw lap time and consistency during a race. For example, in Bahrain we had 5 drivers out of 20 that were +3 seconds slower on the race's fastest lap. 4 of the same 5 drivers were at the bottom of the consistency chart too. I'll name them so that we can all help them improve:

Cliff Vanleeuwaarde (+7.7s slower than the fastest lap, 3.09s deviation)

Cliff, you had 205 clean laps on Liveracers with a 99% completion rate, meaning that you were not hotlapping. Being almost 8 seconds a lap slower than the faster guy puts you in a position where you will be lapped quite frequently. My recommendation to you is to start practicing some hot laps, you can ask any of us for a setup on Discord and we'll gladly help. Your consistency also needs some work but it's not as bad as your raw pace.


Thomas Shepherd (+3.8s slower, 3.24s deviation)

Thomas, 142 clean laps with 82% completion rate. I'm not sure if you ESC a lot from accidents or you were hot lapping. In your case, your raw pace is not so far out from the rest, however when you are almost 4 seconds off the pace and you deviate from that another 3 seconds then it adds up quickly. I'd recommend sitting on board any of the faster guys so that you learn how fast the car can go and also ask for setup help from any of us on Discord.


Karl Strouhal (+3.2s slower, 4.90s deviation)

I know you are quite new to this, Karl. Like Thomas, your raw pace is not so far out but your consistency really needs work. You need to load up that car with heavy fuel, have a stable setup, and start racking up the laps with consistency.


Stephen Broderson (+3.1s slower, 7.92s deviation)

My man Stephen, the guy that's on the server almost every time hahaha. You had 362 clean laps with an 89% completion rate. Not so far off the pace but boy that consistency is terrible. Given the number of laps that you clock in, I wonder if the issue is more nerves during the race. If I'm right on this assumption, this only gets better while practicing with other cars around you. Maybe use the AI in offline mode, they can be quite competitive when you set them to the max. Your teammate Jeff Oppenheim is one of the most veterans here and I'm sure the setup is not an issue.


Francis Hartstein (+5.5s slower, 1.41s deviation)

Lastly, Francis. Your consistency is quite good but your raw pace is the one that lacks a bit. I wonder if Jean-Pierre Lalancette is sharing his setup with you hahaha. You should focus on improving your lap time. Reduce that gap and you'll be there fighting in the midfield at least.


Alright, this went much longer than expected haha. I hope it was constructive and we can start seeing some results soon.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

2 months ago
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#6497
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If you're worried about losing time to the blue flag, just remember, the guy you're racing for position will have to let the leader by too. If you do it in a smart way, you can use it as an advantage. Let the lead lap car pass as fast as possible. I don't mean race him, I mean get him through quickly. Then get behind the faster car and use the draft to help you close on the next guy.

If I'm about to get the blue flag/get lapped and I'm racing the guy behind me, I let the leader go by in the best spot possible way, so I lose as little time as possible to my rival behind. If your rival is getting a blue flag behind you, run for it while you can! Try to maximize the time you gain while they allow the leaders through, because you're next!
2 months ago
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#6498
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Simple golden rule…Always let faster cars past on the straights.

Even if you backed way out and let a guy that’s 3 seconds behind you by, it’s still the best thing for your race.

Slot in behind him and follow him through everyone else! ;)

Life’s good again lol
2 months ago
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#6500
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Mat,

That doesn't work well on a track with lots a corners. For instance, at Suzuka. A faster car could be well back on the straight and catch you heading into the Esses. I don't think they would appreciate being stuck behind a slow car until after the hairpin. This brings up what I meant above about how to let a car pass changes with the track.

On a simple straight or two straights linked by a high speed corner, the racing line is simple. In a section of corners, the line moves all over the place. You could be off the line for 100 meters and then the line moves across the track. So, you move over but maybe too early and the faster car doesn't pass you right away and the racing line moves back and now your in the line when the fast guy catches you. You might try to move back off the line, but making unexpected moves will get you nothing buy yelling at on Team Speak. Staying on the line will get you the same. So , your in the wrong no matter what you do. The sim will throw a penalty after a certain amount of blue flag time. The stewards will give you a penalty as well.

A simpler track to pass at would be Monza. Plenty of straights, but even there, a couple places can get drivers pissed off. The second chicane through the Lesmos and the Ascari corners. At the Lesmos I might go through the first one on the line and move to the right to let a faster car past, but they don't want to wait for you to move and dive to the right. Now you've just blocked them and you'll get yelled at or about in the chat program. And you will be at fault again, in most drivers view. At tracks like this, I try to predict when I will be overtaken and if necessary drive quite slow before a corner section to force the lapping driver to get around before the corners. However this only work if you are not racing anyone else for position.

It's just not as simple to get passed and still be racing as you'd think. Sometimes you just get lucky with the timing of fast cars catching you on the straights.
2 months ago
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#6501
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Disagree lol works every time. Let past on front straight if he’s gonna catch you by then, if not let go into degnas.

I’ve seen hundreds of people literally drive themselves off the track trying to let people go in a corner. Just do it on the straight trust me!
0
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“ Lastly, Francis. Your consistency is quite good but your raw pace is the one that lacks a bit. I wonder if Jean-Pierre Lalancette is sharing his setup with you hahaha. You should focus on improving your lap time. Reduce that gap and you'll be there fighting in the midfield at least. “

I sure do give him my set up , but I’m no set up wizzard myself , my question is do you ?
Are the “pros” of this league do ?
I haven’t seen this at all , it might help !
2 months ago
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#6504
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Good afternoon, Janos, Jean and Drivers!

I agreed that been slower is not good for the race and can cause disturbing for the fastest drivers. However, when I collided, I've lost my front wing, cost me 21 secs on pits to replaced it, and the car was not the same, and have to change the strategy with hard tires... After that I had to let the other drivers pass me on blue flag, what makes me slower... After return to the race, on last position, and let the other drivers pass me on blue flag, I was at 16 position, at lap 23, correct me if I was wrong, and in a blue flag, I will let the 13th driver pass me on hairpin, and I assume that made a mistake when looking at the mirror and lost some time on S curves before, and he hit me when I reduces the speed, but unfortunately he also will let the first driver pass him on the same point... However he had hit me, and ruined my recuperation race, because I've lost my rear wing, I understood it was not intentional due to the circumstances, that's why I did not open a complaining, because of that he lost the front wing and two positions on the race results.

I'm always improving my consistency and lap times, this race I could not practice as I'd like, personal issues. We can see the rule for drivers slower that 107% for next races on official practice.

This comparison of I was 5.5 secs slower are not all laps, but the specific ones that I had to let some racers pass me (first, second and third drivers)... I was with a full tank and hard tires with 22 laps older... I didn't remind been so slower!...

Please, if is there some place I could see the statistics of the race, I'd like analyze...

Thank you and best regards,

Francis Alex Hartstein
2 months ago
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#6505
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Undo

I sure do give him my set up , but I’m no set up wizzard myself , my question is do you ?
Are the “pros” of this league do ?
I haven’t seen this at all , it might help !


I can't speak for the 'pros' of this league but from my point of view someone's setup won't make you quicker or more consistent. I assure you I wouldn't have won at Bahrain with Argenis' setup.

The way I see it, if a driver is struggling he should:
1) Try to identify WHERE he is struggling the most on the track or in general
2) What he wants the car to do in those situations
3) Then ask the question to others how can he make the car do what he wants the car to do.
4) Apply changes and test
5) Rinse and repeat.

This way he should be able to learn how to make the car do what he wants the car to do. Think of it like a suit tailored specially to you, by you :-)

Prove of this is one of the quickest drivers in this league, a championship winner just a couple of years ago, still asks so many questions to anyone and everyone about everything that you would think he is some kind of rookie just starting SIM racing. That's what I think makes him so great and that works for everyone.

Ask the questions, I am sure some of the 'pros' here will be more than happy to answer them.
2 months ago
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#6506
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“ Lastly, Francis. Your consistency is quite good but your raw pace is the one that lacks a bit. I wonder if Jean-Pierre Lalancette is sharing his setup with you hahaha. You should focus on improving your lap time. Reduce that gap and you'll be there fighting in the midfield at least. “

I sure do give him my set up , but I’m no set up wizzard myself , my question is do you ?
Are the “pros” of this league do ?
I haven’t seen this at all , it might help !


CLICK HERE FOR STATS
2 months ago
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#6507
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Mat,

"Disagree lol works every time. Let past on front straight if he’s gonna catch you by then, if not let go into degnas."

That's pretty funny. If they can't pass you on the straight, stay in the way through corners and dive out of the way in the very short straight ( at Suzuka ) , without slowing unexpectedly in the first corner, of the Degner curves. You don't hang out in a TeamSpeak channel much, do you?

Here is something that perhaps you didn't consider... how fast the top cars catch you and how pissed they get if you don't get the heck out of the way is all about how much slower the driver is. If your under a second slower per lap, all of the issues are much smaller. If you are 5 seconds a lap slower, everything you do is slower and the issues are much bigger.
2 months ago
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#6508
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if we’re struggling to let drivers through on straights at Bahrain 🇧🇭, the widest straight filled track on the calendar then I’ve got nothing left to say.

It’s excuses brother :) Being lapped is very simple. On the straights always as I’ve said. I’ll be happy to show anyone how it’s done when I get lapped by argenis next race lol 😂

FYI he will be let by on a straight… 😎
2 months ago
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#6509
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it should be noted there are also good hud's in the workshop that give large amounts more data than the default

these will prevent you from being surprised by blue flags , you can keep track of all cars on track for the whole race , your closest rivals and the leaders can be kept track of in these hud's, the one i use also has fuel calculations ie laps remaining in fuel and per ;lap calculation
the game also has its own tracker that appears as a line on the bottom of your view if you enable it , a quick glance is all thats needed, the cars are numbered on a straight line by position
1 month ago
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#6510
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John,

The line of cars at the bottom is the item I mentioned that is hard to read when the cars are close and stacked on top of each other. I wish the dots were smaller, so it was more accurate.
1 month ago
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#6511
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Mat,
...If you are 5 seconds a lap slower, everything you do is slower and the issues are much bigger.


Everything you do is slower, yes, with the exception of straight line speed. In my experience, those 5-second per lap slower cars are much faster than the passing car on the straight, which allows them to try to beat the passing car to the next corner. Maybe adding a bit more wing can assist on improving lap time, but what do I know?
1 month ago
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#6512
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Otto,

I've seen that and don't get it. If the blue flag is out, let the pass happen as soon as possible. Racing to the next corner only makes things worse for both drivers. However, at least in my case and I suspect a few others, the fast guys are just plain faster everywhere. I've often wondered how some of you get such good straight line speed and make the corners fast too. I suspect the teams have a small NOS tank hidden somewhere.
1 month ago
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#6513
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Otto,
I've often wondered how some of you get such good straight line speed and make the corners fast too. I suspect the teams have a small NOS tank hidden somewhere.


At Aston, we can't afford NOS, but I am sure there is plenty of it at McLaren :-)
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